Michele: 

Hello, everybody, welcome. Welcome. It seems like we’ve been gone for a million years. Welcome to 2021 Happy New Year or something like that because the year has definitely started out interest. It’s the only enough, right? Like, can we get through week one, and it’s like nah. But we knew that 2021 was going to continue the work in diversity, equity inclusion. I’m just so much work on becoming more conscious inches of biases and harassment and really systemic racism. Today is a great topic that we’re going to have going to discuss with our guests Ada chin. I’m so excited. We still have Casey’s here. I’m still here. But I want to introduce you to ADA. Ada is the CEO and founder of a skincare line that offers affordable handmade products made from all natural ingredients. Ada, what’s the name of your skincare line for us?

Ada:

It’s called ch one ch u n. And it’s named after my dad who recently passed.

Michele: 

I love I love this mission. I love the name. I love the mission. Her mission is to make the world a better place through leadership, empathy, and driving cultural change, which is definitely why her mission still aligns with what power high positive Cairo says. She is deeply passionate about empowering entrepreneurs. It shares her knowledge and experience from Tech marketing, on her blog, the cultivate method, it has been involved in the Asian American community organizing for the past decade, she served on the executive board of the Taiwanese American professional San Francisco chapter. And as a former national president of the intercollegiate Taiwanese American Students Association. She’s built a coalition between multiple Asian American student run nonprofits, and represented the internet intercollegiate, Taiwanese American student association at the White House Initiative on Asian American and Pacific Islanders islanders youth form during the Obama administration. This is why I love doing these live streams. Because y’all know y’all didn’t know about Ada until today. Y’all y’all like, I don’t know who’s working in this space. I don’t know anybody that how does this work? Women in men and others, like Ada are out here. So this is why we do these live streams so you can get kind of up close in person, especially during a pandemic. But it is I guess, for today, so ADA, welcome. Welcome to dei first days. Thank you for having me. You’re very welcome. Now, I’m Sheena regular, but I still It’s a new year, y’all may have forgotten or maybe you’re new to the show. We have KC. KC, you want to introduce yourselves?

KC: 

Hi, I’m KC. And I’m coming in from Denver, Colorado. And I work with an organization called sin BrahMos. Which means together we sell together we grow. And what I try to do is root out racism and other isms and other oppression from organizations to give rise to equity and liberation. And that looks different in every organization. And so I just love taking all my varied experiences and knowledge and helping and walking the path with organizations that are ready to align their values and the outcomes of their work. So it’s how people do their mission is where I come in.

Michele: 

I love it. I love it. So, ADA, why this topic? I wanted to start there because we’re talking about how can the Pacific Islander and Asian community be better allies to black co workers? So why this specific topic?

Ada: 

Yeah. I mean, I think it comes through a lot of factors, obviously, currently, racism is a huge factor and topic that we’re talking about as a society, especially in the US, but it’s also when we think about it. Asian Americans tend to identify as our minority group, but tend to also take that mindset into the workplace, especially in tech. But having worked in startups and large tech companies in the Bay Area for a while. Asian Americans are actually the second largest group in tech right behind white people. Depending on what company you’re at, we are 20 to 30% of employees, which is massive when you compare to the number of black and Latin x employees out there. Because you know, those are anywhere from the low single digits to maybe 10%. You know, depending on the company and how recently they’ve reported their stats. And then Asian Americans actually are also about almost a quarter of all leadership positions. If you look at companies like Google and Facebook, we’re up there, I have been up there. And there’s a lot of things that come with being in that position in terms of being the, you know, second majority group in a organization where you can actually stand up for others, and you should be standing up for others, I think, if you go to the actual definition of an ally, which Michelle, I think you’ve very nicely defined on positive hires website, it’s someone who has at least one dominant identity who chooses to intervene, right, and most of what we’re talking about a work situation here, but an institutional situation where harm is actively being perpetrated against another group, or marginalized group, right. And so I personally think that having been in that situation, I don’t see enough of my peers, being either equipped to or knowing how to actually be an ally and speak up for their other coworkers. And there’s a lot of things I could say about how we got there. But I think it’s mostly more important to focus on how do we use that position of power and privilege and extend it to our black and Latin x colleagues, especially women, I should also add, especially women,

Michele: 
agree. So you, you see, it is not saying that, like you said, Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders don’t encounter racism and other biases, like you said, but is that what what else that just either for women, white women that leverage that hack that you have? How do you utilize that to help others. And that’s truly truly key because we always like, but I still have so much, absolutely countering stuff. And it’s sort of like a four year old helping a two year old, right?

Ada:

Yeah, it’s recognizing and understanding that we are also a minority group. And but we also have a great amount of privilege. And that it’s myth that Asian Americans don’t have privilege, right privilege doesn’t mean that you are rich, or you didn’t struggle to get where you are today, right. And that’s something that I think a lot of folks don’t necessarily understand. And we’re working on kind of teaching everyone. But it means that there are some things that you don’t have to experience in your life or think about just because of who you are and how you present. Like one of the biggest examples in a conversation I had very early on in my career in tech was just being followed in our store, right? A black colleague of mine shared that, you know, he is he was followed on stores in San Francisco. And that was something that previous to that point in my life had never crossed my mind. And that is simply because I have the privilege of looking like this, right? I and the numerous social stereotypes that people just give bestowed upon me, because I have the privilege of walking around with this face in the skin. So I think it’s about using that privilege and understanding that there are things that we don’t have to experience, there’s plenty that we do, but using that to speak up and amplify and also listen to others who are facing different circumstances and different prejudices that we don’t have to face, and then using that for good to help lift everybody up.

Michele: 

Exactly. So so let’s go to Did you have specific examples she wanted to go to? Because Casey and I always have questions to Dr. conversation. But you know, we can hold off if we’re very specific things that you wanted to talk about that you wanted to share to the audience from your perspective that they that other Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders could do in the workplace.

Ada:

I think there are 30 things. One, I would say it’s just understanding and listening and really looking into history. For a lot of Asian Americans in tech right now. Many of us are millennials, older millennials. And we may have been born here and our parents may have come here for grad school and our parents may have come here for grad school because if you look at history, the Civil Rights Act and then the Voting Rights Act and the Immigration Act on the 16th paves the way for them to come here and become highly educated. At least you know, my personal circumstance, that is how my dad and my mom got here. And then they met here and had us, right so that’s how they paved the way to come here. And that’s a very different set of circumstances, not only within the Asian American community, but Because, you know, within the Asian community, there’s dozens of ethnicities, countries of origin languages represented. And so you’ve got folks who come here as refugees, you have folks who come here, will afford college education, you have all sorts of different stories. But to understand that a lot of the folks represented in tech come from a similar background as mine, I’m not really, we are here. And our privilege is here, because black folks, quote, paved the way with the civil rights reason, right. So there’s a lot of great reading out there that you can do. And I think that’s something that a lot of Asian Americans, we don’t see, we don’t get educated in that in our school systems here, in, you know, elementary through high school or college. And you really have to seek that out in order to understand that history and understand how we got here. So I think that’s one thing that you can do personally, in your own time, there’s different formats, books, movies, all of us to kind of educate and learn on your own. And I think the other thing, the second thing that I would want to point out is that standing up, standing up for yourself, or not for yourself or for others, in a meeting, or in any other type of situation where you are encountering racism or bias in the workplace, it may seem scary for you, but I guarantee it is 10 times infinitely more scary for the person who is on the receiving end of it, who, you know, may have their own existence, right. And so we are really there to speak up and amplify those voices. And very, I don’t, it’s not like a savior or anything, it’s more like a Hey, if you see something, you should say something kind of thing. And it does take practice. And so I think it’s you personally, I’ve been in a lot of meetings where I’ve had to call out people, and that’s where it gets a little sticky, a bit rough, people will start to butt heads with you. And you know, you’re going to be going up against certain stereotypes against Asians, you know, where you’re gonna have to combat that, and then also amplify other voices.

KC: 

Thank you so much for sharing that I think it’s super important to really anchor ourselves in history, which is something that I always like to bring up first. And sort of just building that muscle of understanding like, we our story isn’t the only story out there. So it’s, it’s nice to like, hear you say that as well, because I try to say it’s so interesting. Yeah. And then, but then I sort of and I don’t know, let’s just throw this out there. When people do ask me sometimes about like, Where are you from, depending on my mood? To get a different answer. And I understand like, Why, because it’s a microaggression to me all the time, I feel like oh my gosh, you’re just asking me because I have brown skin and you’re like, why is your skin Brown? Or where are you really from or where your parents really from? And so that’s sort of like this microaggression. But then on the other side of me, I’m saying, hey, try and figure out and learn about people’s history and different stories. And I tried to say, you know, watch movies, read books, read blogs, watch things like our show where people are openly sharing their stories. But I was just wondering, like, what and how have you experienced that sort of like building that muscle around understanding diversity of experiences?

Ada: 

When you’re like, where you from, I just, oh, man, I get Where are you from? But where are you really from? A lot. Still, it’s 2021 people come on. And it hurts like I’m not gonna lie when people say that it hurts. I actually had a mentor who was also very active in Asian American organizing. And he actually said to me, he was like, you’re really lucky because you don’t have an accent when you talk. And I was like, it took me a while to kind of wrap my brain around what he really meant. And what he really meant is that over the phone, I could be presenting. Right? And to be fair, I’ve had I’ve had sales jobs, I’ve been that person calling to take surveys and raise money. And when you’re on the phone with me, you would not know my skin, you would not know my background. I think it’s hard for people to come to work, knowing and it’s almost like code switching everyday when you go to work. You’re at home, like maybe you’re at home and you have a partner with a similar background or experiences to you. Or maybe you live in a place where there are many people who have similar experiences or backgrounds to you. And then you go to work and it is a white dominated culture, right. And so you need to do that code switch to get into work mode. It’s, it’s hard and you kind of have to start recognizing it, I think is the first step, understanding that that’s what your brain is going through what you’re doing. Because a lot of people don’t even know that that’s what’s happening, right? They have a workplace, and they have a home voice. And they’re two separate things. Obviously, you think it’s 2021, we all kind of that’s all kind of blended. For better or worse. And it’s, it’s really hard, like, it’s actually actively taxing on your brain to have to think about those things, especially if you are working from home, and there is no physical separation anymore. And so yeah, I will be the first to admit that it’s not something that I’m perfect at, I’m still working at it, there’s definitely I definitely have to actively think sometimes about like, if I’m going out to this place, how am I presenting myself? How will people accept that, you know, personally, like, I’ve walked into nice stores before, and they think that I am, you know, straight off the boat, from Taiwan or from somewhere else. And so they either don’t approach me in English and approach me in Chinese, if I’m in, you know, either like San Francisco or LA, they do actually hire salespeople in nice stores who can speak Chinese. And I am lucky enough to be fairly bilingual. Or, you know, if I’m traveling outside of the US, that also happens. And I understand that also have that that type of interaction happens for other people of color, in different ways as well. And I think once you realize that we all experience the world similarly, but differently, you start to actually be able to see a little bit more of when injustice is happening in the workplace, what you need to do or what you need to say, to point it out to other people, because it’s not readily apparent, just due to the society that we live in. Definitely Welcome back, Michelle.

Michele:

What Well, I wanted to point out something Ada said about how she spoke up in meetings, and you do a bystander training. And I wanted to talk about that, like, what are one or two things that people can do? And really, so what I mean and like, you talked about ADA, specifically, how you spoke up, like, hey, that’s not right. What you did is and you’re like no, no is acceptable. And and how can she defuse that? Like, what is what are some things to say? Or, cuz either way, it may not go right or wrong, but and that just eight other Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders, they can say to leverage their, their influence when they see something wrong. And we especially doing during times and means is not not necessarily hostile, but it turns hostile, like, what are some things they can do? And I know this is part of your area of expertise?

KC:

Is this question for me or ADA? For me, is for you can see. 2021? I just tried to keep up? Yes. So being an active bystander, I love teaching this course. Because there’s strategies that I just love to just teach people. And so one of them, the first strategy is just self assess. And it’s sort of what Ada said, is just understanding whenever you are in the position to be an ally. And what that requires is, is knowing when you’re in the dominant position, right? So dominant culture is able bodied maybe or speaks English or whatever, I don’t know what it is in your life or your situation. But you would, you would need to be able to identify that if you do that and calculate, hey, I feel safe to speak up, I’m going to now one strategy I love is whenever people take your idea, or another woman’s idea or another marginalized identities idea, and then someone else, you know, says it, and then all of a sudden, because Bob or john said it, like, it’s a great idea. But then everyone forgets that Maria said at first, you know, so it’s just like, what can we do amplification? So I would say, Okay, oh, yes, Bob, that is such a great idea. I love how you built on Maria’s original one, amplification. So that’s how you can respond to sort of like a microaggression, which is just minimizing silencing or valuing certain ideas. So that was just one way you can be an ally, because oftentimes, our voices are silenced. So that’s one big one that I just get really excited about, because I think it’s something that folks can do if they feel safe in a meeting to do so. So that’s one and then another one would would just be so like an ABC statement. So if something is happening to you personally, or you see it happen To someone else, you could say, when you do a, it makes me feel be I need you to do see. So that’s just directly saying how you should treat me. And then another thing you could do for someone else is if you didn’t feel safe in the moment to stand up for them to say, Hey, what’s going on here? or it doesn’t seem like, she likes what you’re saying, or whatever, you could show up for them afterwards. So you could say, Hey, I heard what happened in that meeting, and I’m not okay with that. Or I’m feeling uncomfortable with it. How are you feeling like, or, you know, just saying something like, validating it, like, what I heard didn’t feel okay for me, how does it feel for you, so you’re not speaking for them, you’re speaking for yourself. And you’re also trying to show like, Hey, I’m here for you. Another thing you could do, document, Oh, my gosh, write it down, write an email down. You don’t want to write it on your business. This way. I learned from Michelle. I was like document. But Michelle was like, maybe you don’t document on your work email. So I was like, Yes, you just upgraded that recommendation. So when you document also assess whether I should just document an email myself on my personal Gmail so that it’s held there? Or, you know, could I save it in my work email, and maybe that is the appropriate move, you have to decide based on that. And the reason document is important is because if it happens to me, it helps my memory, remember what happened, I can see a pattern arising, I can use it later. If it’s for someone else, you can be an active bystander by documenting it for them. When things happen to us. Sometimes it’s so hard to react in the moment, because we might freeze we not may not know what to say we may not, you know, anyway, so I am a colleague, I can document it for my fellow colleague, and say, Hey, I documented what I heard and saw, let me know if you want it, I have it when women if you ever need it, I can just send it to you or whatever, let me know. And that gives them agency. So these are some of the things I teach folks, for how to be an active bystander how to be an active ally, you know, I think you can interchange by standard with ally whenever you see harm possibly happening. And the last thing I would say is just to make sure that you check in with the person who’s being targeted. I’ve always tried to like, build up that muscle of like, Are you okay, how does you know like checking in with the person because sometimes they don’t want you to say or do anything, because that would bring on even more harm. And so they have to do their own calculations. And like that is not the role of an ally, to tell the harmed person, what and how they should respond. So that’s it.

Michele: 
Now you see why I have her on here. Love it. So I want to I want to move on to something that actually came up in about a year ago in another discussion with another Latina. And it was something which she went to support other black allies about racism. Have you have there been questions about how black lives matter, or the anti racism work goes? Because when they see black lives matter, a lot of people think it’s only about black people. And how did you address that? Or how do you think is the best way to address that when it comes to Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders to help you stand on reflect? Because it’s not right. Yeah. That’s that’s the heart. I think that’s one discussion. It seems to delineate or try to separate. And that’s really not the intent.

Ada:

 
Yeah. And I think we’ve got a related comment from all. I think Elon has commented a few ones. But their comment was, I’m not sure that Asian Americans are inherently racist, even though they don’t outwardly expressive prejudice, prejudice among other Asians as well as other race, we have to get over that hump. So there, I think there’s like two things here. Right. So there is within Asian Americans, like I said, it’s a massively diverse group. You know, there’s been massive campaigns, the census just finished about identifying yourself to the specific ethnicity and country of origin in order to provide the government with that data to better advocate for groups within our larger group. And I think, you know, definitely there’s Asian against Asian racism, and that’s something that we internally need to face. And then there’s Asians against everybody else, racism, which is a huge factor. It is something that whether or not you are aware of it, is something that has just been passed down and almost like whispers is the best analogy that I’ve heard for throughout various Asian American groups and specific groups within the community. And I know I have one of my personal examples is that over the summer, I was back in California taking care of some family things. Some of my family is part of A specific Chinese language church. And someone from this church very nicely reached out and said, You know, I would love to help you. And then in a comment, she basically posted a, in a group chat with myself, my sister and my aunt, uncle and cousin, you know, watch out, there’s going to be riots in this area. It’s like, let’s be real. There’s definitely some anti black sentiment coming through here, you’re conflating riots with black lives matter. And that’s not the same. And like, forget the fact that we’re just in suburban, California, like just Whoa. And I had to kind of bring her back and say, like, Hey, you know, on TV, I don’t know you. We are not personally acquainted, we became acquainted for less than ideal names that I know you’re coming from a place of wanting to help. But let me put into this resource. And teach you a little bit more about why there is this wedge, right. And so if you think about anti blackness in the Asian community, a lot of that is stems goes all the way back to the model minority myth, which, if you don’t know, you’ve probably seen or experienced that. It’s basically that myth that Asians are more successful because of hard work. And so it’s, it’s this myth that’s used to put a wedge between us and everybody else. And it’s really a myth that was created by white people. And this leads to tensions right against other minority groups, because then Asians are held to like, well, if they can do it, then why can’t black people do it? Why can’t Latin x people do it? Like, why can’t this group do it? And that’s completely not true. Right? perpetuating that means that you’re trying to bring Asian Americans and move them closer to whiteness, because whiteness in our current society, right means that you get access to positive things, and you get shielded from the bad. And it’s a myth that white supremacy is just about protecting white people, from black people. It’s really the white ideas and values from everybody else. Right. And so if you buy into that myth, and you continue to perpetuate it, you are inherently perpetuating racist statements against everybody else. And I think a lot of that spot has been almost insidiously planted within the community, right, you’ll see a lot of folks in in their 40s to 60s, as we Adrian, I will give who kind of inherently believe that, because that’s what they were taught to believe, when they either came here, or as you know, younger folks, or, as they were coming up here, you know, working hard, they’re saying they’re working hard to the American dream, and kind of trying to fulfill that mess, which doesn’t really I will say that both don’t exist, feel free to dig up on those. But I think it’s really understanding that that is the wedge that’s being driven. And when you look at it holistically, we have to stop perpetuating that. And I think in 2021, we’re in a way better place than we were even in 2010 in terms of recognizing and calling that out. But there’s still a really long way to go. And there are resources like letters for black lives. And then also Asians for Black Lives, South Asians for Black Lives, all these organizations that are kind of grassroots that aren’t necessarily like, you know, formally organized nonprofits yet maybe, but better providing resources for folks to actually talk to others within the community, because it’s not up to black folks to talk to, you know, Asian folks in the Chinese church. That is somewhere where is and I can come in and say, Hey, like, you don’t have access to them. There’s a language barrier. There’s a cultural barrier here, there’s she has her own prejudice, but I can go talk to this auntie and say, Hey, I don’t know if you know, you’re actually like doing the thing. And it’s kind of bad. And starting the conversation that way and going from there. And I think there’s, there’s a whole lot more work we have to do internally within our own communities. Right. And that’s, that’s on us. And what I’m really excited to see is that we’ve come such a long way since I was a student organizer, but we still have so much further to go. And it’s all up to the students of today. And those of us who have been doing that kind of cycle and are currently working and alpha to continue doing that work. And not just posting you know, a black square or an MLK quote, and like being like, I’m done, right? You have to constantly be reading, looking for other experiences, watching videos, tuning into this, and then putting that work back into our own communities so that that eventually kind of radiates out. Unfortunately, I think there is also an aspect of time, right? It’s gonna take time and we’ve only made so much progress up to this time, but the progress I’ve seen in the last year is just leaps and bounds beyond what I’ve seen over the last decade.

Michele: 

absolutely absolutely agree we’ve, we’re seeing great change, we’re seeing more communication, and understanding how the bipoc community has been split up. And what was really interesting is to gather the power we have. And I think because the system was set up, like if they knew together how powerful they wouldn’t be, we wouldn’t stand a chance not so we divide them, we had a better chance at remaining and holding on to our culture and our power. So that was that was very, very good. So ADA, we are at that time where we have to say, We will see you later. But before we do that, anything you want to share before before we leave today.

Ada: 

Um, I like you said in the intro, I am a entrepreneur with multiple businesses, I’m also trying to actively do the work. So two things that I’m doing. One of them’s a resource that I wanted to offer to anyone here, or anyone who watches this later is check out my website, my marketing blog, the cultivate method, one of the things I’m doing is actively trying to empower entrepreneurs of color, because systemically, you know, the way that the stats pan out white and Asian people are set up to be more successful as entrepreneurs and black and Latin x people. And that’s just not fair. And so I’m trying to do my part and provide the information I’ve learned in tech and what I’m putting to paper and sharing with folks. So I’m sharing my my ebook, it’s $80.60 plus pages about lots of worksheets, I got a whole month long for free to learn about how to do marketing, or get your business’s marketing fundamental setup. And I’m giving it away for free to entrepreneurs of color. So the cultivate method.com slash scholarship, I will be giving away that and future content for free. So stay tuned there, reach out to me as well on LinkedIn or on my website. And then on my skincare line trans skincare, we’ll be starting to donate in 2021, a percentage of sales to social justice and anti racist groups. The tentative plan is to change up the group once a month. But so far, I have to figure out the mechanics of Shopify to get that to work. But once I do, you will be hearing a lot about that I’m really excited to kind of do that further that work. Like I said, you know, the skincare line is all about natural skincare. It’s named after my dad who passed two weeks ago. And he himself when I was going through his papers, when he came to America, I learned that he was actually an Asian American groups in his grad program, which I didn’t, I didn’t, even here from the 80s. So I had no idea until going through these papers that he had actually done it a lot of the activism and work that I do is inspired by him. And I’m so proud to continue keeping on doing this through my own businesses and my own work. And thank you thank you both for having me today. This has been great. If you need more resources, I will certainly be posting them in the comments as well, for folks just to get more reading and more videos watched because I think education is super important to being an ally.

Michele: 

Thank you, Ada so much for joining KC, anything you want to add in here,

KC: 

I just want to say thank you so much ADA and just double down on what Michelle said, like if we come together like this. It’s powerful, we are powerful together. And what we can do is even 10 times, you know, power more powerful when we’re together. So I’m glad I’m so glad that we get to be we got to be in community today. And I’m looking forward to continuing being in community with you going forward. And thank you to everyone who joined us today. And I just want to finally just say I’m sure a day your father is looking down and is so proud. So so proud. We are our ancestors greatest dreams. True.

Michele: 

I just want to point out if nobody watching has noticed this black, Asian Latinx. I’m just saying. I’m just saying. I’m just saying the melon is poppin poppin over here. So everybody, be sure even if you’re watching this on the replay you tag ADA, tell her what you think, tell her if you’re looking for other resources that she mentioned, other organizations, whatever you’re looking for, that you want to share with other Asian Americans or maybe a shoe because in Pacific Islanders definitely let her know this is what this is about is about sharing, caring and really taking action as an ally. If somebody literally said allies, no, no, they’re accomplices. I like that better. So I think Casey we’re gonna be working on some accomplice work in 2012 right? Yeah. Either Are you an accomplished snap? This is accomplished. So if you want to be an accomplice, I’m just saying. Check us out. Be sure to check us out for di Thursdays. I’m Michele Heyward founder positive hire. And we will be back next week. Bye, everybody.