Michele: 

Hello, Hello, everybody. This is Michele Heyward, founder of positive hire. And today we have another great session. This is a really different one that we’re doing for the community. And I had the opportunity for somebody who I’m connected with on LinkedIn, and chalet is going to tell me who that is. Because right now I’m just drawing a blank and her name, sent me this survey to do which concern black women’s health. And I like, hold on one minute, I need to know what’s going on. What’s the objective? What’s the goal, because I really thought it was profound. Because we often don’t get the opportunity to talk about our experiences, especially when it comes to guess what our Hill. So I reached out to the person who sent me the survey, she’s like, it wasn’t her. She said in the message, it was a friend of hers. So I was like, Okay, we got to get this set up. So long story short, that’s how she is here tonight. And she’s like me, she’s just talking on a native. So I was like, Oh, girl. Let’s do this. Let’s do this. So I’m going to introduce her in just one moment. But first, I want to give some updates. If you’re on email list, you may have seen that we have a lot of recordings, a lot of trainings that we’ve been doing the last few weeks, as many of us have been fortunate enough to work from home. And that is not the case for a lot of people, especially black and brown people. So with that, most of the content, I’ve come out that content or sessions we’ve created are directly for black and brown women who are scientists and engineers or they have the opportunity to work from home. So if you go over to positive hire.co. So that’s dot co forward slash blog, you can get a copy of the recordings, we put it over, there’s not a whole lot of blog or reading to do, because the recordings are there. And we’re just moving really fast right now to make sure we’re meeting your most immediate needs. So be sure you go to positive hire co or slash blog to get like the last two trainings on managing stress doing COVID-19 and also homeschooling and working from home. Right now. Uber chalet was scheduled before COVID-19 really like she was like, why y’all not like that, that’s where I am is locked out what is really going on and just how slow the US has been responding to this pandemic. Okay, also we have coming up, we have available if you attended in our virtual summit, they go from free to pay right now they are free until May 1. So take advantage of those on and one of them I’m having technical issues with so I’m give me a little bit of time if you need the one on how to negotiate salary messaged me directly. So and I can give you an update when it comes live. Somebody left a message and I don’t know who on right below the recording, I don’t know who to reach out to to let them know when when we get it fixed. So we’re working on how to what’s the workaround for it. Um, and the last thing that I want to mention is I will be doing a virtual pitch I’m finishing up an online accelerator. So if you’re interested in learning more about what I’m doing with positive hire as a tech startup is a short three minute pitch. I just don’t know where I am in the lineup of 10 other women founder of 11 founders, so you will have to sit through about an hour at most of us going through pitches to see where I am anatomy that’ll be on Friday and I’ll share that link as well. So this is why we here we are here to talk about why black Women’s Health Matters. And today we have chalet ver se who is a PhD I want her to share with us why she’s studying what she’s doing with the research, what why she’s doing the research, and then how we as black women can help her in helping ourselves because the real the the same thing with me. It’s like, I need y’all to help me build this tech company in order for me to help y’all advance in your careers. And so it is no one way and so I want her to come on as a fellow South Carolinian linea is somebody who’s really working to change us as a people as women as a culture how we are often sidelined and not thought of or we are after thought after things have been built out and created. So welcome, welcome so much. So glad to have you. I will let you get started. tell everybody about yourself and about the work you’re doing.

Shellae: 

Okay, thank you so much, Michelle. I really appreciate you inviting me To speak to everyone tonight, I’ve been looking forward to this for some time. And Michelle is right. I’m from South Carolina, but I’m currently in Connecticut, where we’re on lockdown. And I live in New York City. So um, you know, it’s always been a dream project of mine to better understand black women from a very intimate perspective. And I don’t necessarily when I look in the academic literature, or just like in the public discourse on social media, etc, I don’t necessarily see a lot of First Person accounts about black women from the perspective of black women. So I’m trained as a psychologist, and I’m a professor of psychology here at Wesleyan University, I also have a background in public health. So you know, that intersection really grounds my interest in black women’s health and mental health, which is something we don’t always get a chance to talk about. So the survey that I’m launching is the first phase of what I hope to be a longitudinal project on black women exclusively. Black women, and it’s not, it’s, it’s not exclusive in the sense that, you know, I don’t think that other women of colors perspective matter. But I think that sometimes within when we think about people of color, or communities of color, sometimes we don’t get an opportunity to deep dive into one particular group. So I’m very much interested in what black women are concerned about what they think about. And so the survey that we’ve launched, you can find it at our story, our voices calm. So we did a tiered approach, we mailed surveys to a mailing list that we received from a market research company. And all, we also, the majority of people that we recruited, were through snowball sampling, which is basically social networks, word of mouth. So I’ve really been trying to get the word out. We’re just a few participants shy of reaching 1000 women. And I’d love to get as many women as possible the survey concludes, I think around the end of April, we’ll close it out. And so the questions are varied and designed to really address women at every life stage, from early adulthood to middle aged to older women, and there’s no criteria, you just have to be a black woman. There are questions about, you know, political attitudes, social attitudes, as well as psychological indicators. We would love feedback about what you think is important to include in subsequent iterations of this survey, like I said, I’m hoping for it to be a longitudinal survey. So when people take the survey, we have a small incentive. So we’ll have a raffle where we will randomly pick about five names, three people will receive $100 Visa gift cards, two people will receive $500 gift cards, just for participating. And we ask them to leave their email address at the end of the survey. And what we’re hoping is that we can keep in contact with people who leave their email address so that we can follow up with them, we can give them the results of this survey I’ve been making. Here in my office been making some charts and graphs about the data. So far, and it’s just really been illuminating. There’s a significant portion that focuses on reproductive health. Because as we’ve been paying attention in the news, there’s a lot of concern about black women, and reproductive health in the health care system. And a lot of it it’s not being talked about in a in a macro way. So those are some of the things that we’re interested in amplifying. So if you’re interested, I can answer specific questions, but that’s a little bit about me and why we’re doing the survey.

Michele: 

Sorry, some people are having an issue, finding the link for the call. Okay. So let’s take a step back and let’s talk about black women’s health. And there have been a lot of things done to us, scientifically that we didn’t approve of And I want to focus on that just for a minute, historically, things that have happened to us whether it was during slavery and even post slavery, even until the 90s. Um, so from your initial research, what were some things that you found out that have happened to us? That really made you go, Okay, this does it hasn’t helped us, it doesn’t help hasn’t helped us as far as getting better medical treatment, or, or it has help the masses get the help they need, what have you found in your initial research? Sure. So

Shellae:

I went to Tuskegee University undergrad. So that’s the contact, who emailed you about the survey, Monica floored, she and I went to Tuskegee together, and she’s now in Charleston. And so being at Tuskegee is a grounding experience, because of the legacy that you learn about with the text, the Tuskegee experiment. So I learned very early on attending school that there were certain things that people did in the name of public health or in the name of advancing medicine that targeted certain groups. And even though that was some years ago, you find similar patterns that are happening today. So I mentioned before reproductive health as being a black woman’s issue that I think deserves a little more light. I’m a mother of two, I, my daughters are eight and 11. And I have my second daughter at home, and the role of home births, and depending on midwives, and doulas in sort of thinking about returning to a natural approach is something that when I talk to friends and family members, that people find a little scary. And I also find it uncertain, because it’s not something that we’re necessarily used to or trained to think about. But I also find the alternative, a little scary, when people go into the hospital, they think they’re going to get a certain level of care. And maybe they don’t receive that level of care, or they’re fearing for their health when they go into the hospital to give birth or even for something routine, like a checkup. So I think these legacies are important lessons for us to think about how systems are set up in ways that invariably disenfranchise certain groups. And not that what I’m doing is going to change those systems, but I’m hoping to just bring light to them, and provide a platform where black women can explore and explain their experiences on their own terms. So for example, one of the questions on the survey is to describe what your experience with the reproductive health system like, you know, what is your typical visit, like at a doctor’s office, and it’s open ended so people can type in their answers, and I’ve gotten tons of, you know, different responses ranging from everything has always been great with my health care provider to some very frightening stories. And I think it’s important to understand that there is a range that there is, you know, a diversity and how we sort of experience healthcare. But when it becomes a situation where black women in particular, are disproportionately experiencing negative things from interacting with their physicians or their doctors, that becomes a problem. And it becomes something that we need to fully understand if we want to, like eliminate health disparities or to understand black women’s health in a more holistic way.

Michele: 

So let’s take that talk for a few minutes. I’m about one black woman who’s come forward and discuss her issues, post delivery, after she delivered her daughter, and that Serena Williams, she was very transparent in that she knew something was wrong. And the doctors ignored what she was saying. When you’re looking at your survey, are you looking for those experiences that let’s say that I directly have had or that we have seen our sisters and cousins and best friends both through as well or just strictly directed at us.

Shellae:

It’s personal, so It’s something that you’ve, you’ve personally experienced. That’s the way the question is worded. However, because it’s open ended, you know, people can type what they want. And so a lot of people have talked about sisters or family members that have had difficulties giving birth or labor complications when they were admitted to the hospital. So there’s a variety of things that people do respond to, which is something that, you know, as a researcher, I, I hold the data very close, not just because I’m a black woman, but because I don’t want to do anything that’s possibly exploitive. So when people take the time to take the survey, I want to comb through all those responses and present them in a way that is accurate. So I’m not sure exactly how I’m going to do this just yet. But but all the qualitative or like the written answers that I’m asking people, I’ll probably have those displayed in some way that communicate whether or not this was a personal experience, or this was someone who an experienced from some person in their social network. I think Surrey Serena Williams experience is a great example, because it opened a lot of people’s eyes, or maybe not open people’s eyes, but just sort of like, gave voice to what I think a lot of women had experienced, whether it’s issues with interacting with the healthcare system, or just feeling as though they were, you know, ignored or not taking seriously. And people or women who are giving birth, for example, are often encouraged to make a birth plan, something that outlines these are the things that I would like to happen during the birthing process. And I’ve heard from lots of women that say that they make a birth plan, and nothing is is being followed in terms of their wishes. And I think that creates a divide and it feeds back into this level of distrust, that I think that sometimes black women, and maybe the black community at large has about going to the doctor, you know, people always talk about black men not going to the doctor. But it to some extent, the same happens with black women, not just with physical health, but with mental health. As we’re sort of all sheltering in place or staying at home, it can be difficult, whether or not you have children or not, you’re sort of like putting on multiple hats. And people can get depressed or feel isolated, particularly when you’re isolated from everyone else. So I think it’s important that we really count people’s experiences as mattering. And that’s part of the survey, like To what extent is this happening to women, and then sort of putting those stories out there anonymously, of course, but putting them out there so that people can understand the nuance that goes on.

Michele: 

I want to switch from reproductive, focus a lot on reproductive to something that is common, but yet not focused on on how it again impacts black women differently. And as cancer, we’ll be looking at ovarian or breast cancer. What in your survey? Are you asking around that part of health?

Shellae:

That’s a great question. Michelle. We’re actually not asking anything about cancer, we do ask women to tell us what their single most important health issue is that spacing them. So people can say whatever it is, like what is concerning, and some people have mentioned cancer, I can just tell you anecdotally, because I just ran the data from the people who’ve already filled out the survey. Diabetes is another big issue that people are worried about. And fibroids, um, we don’t talk a lot about fibroids, but there are lots of people who have fibroids or who managed fibroids. And that seems to be a big concern for people as well as like cancer and chronic diseases. But we don’t ask anything specifically related to cancer. So that’s a good point to sort of note for future research.

Michele: 

And I understand you’re still at the very beginning of the research and it may end up that that’s a third, fourth or fifth layer to your study. And the reason I’m asking all these questions everyone is so you can you understand where she is an aesthetic because if you’re like me, like Hold up, I got a whole lot of questions before I sit down and fill this out. And so I’m asking these questions. These are some of the questions I’ve had I have, and some questions that others in my circle have about doing this are like, well, what are we going Focus on this Are we going to see this and studies take a long time. So for us, it may be five, maybe 10 years before we see some actions and activities. And other part of this is there are a lot of tech startups or health tech startups that are focused on black and brown women specifically. So there are always people in partners and experiences and one of my friends actually from college, she, she registered for this if something may have happened, and and she had a baby die. And that’s that was the catalyst for her to start her health tech company. And so it took it wasn’t, she was having a normal pregnancy. And she went to the doctor and, and her blood pressure was high. And so we have to admit, admit you now, and it was like either we can call the ambulance, or you can have your husband drive you that’s just how and in her baby lived like 18 days before he died. So so it is there are different different catalysts of why I’m asking certain questions. Okay, so fibroids, definitely diabetes, definitely. What I want to talk about now is preventative care. And then I’m also going to go into COVID-19, because at some point, it’s probably going to be an added layer to what you’re studying, because we’re seeing the numbers now coming in for black people and, and COVID-19. Okay, so let’s talk about preventative care, and what you’re looking for in your survey as far as preventative care when it comes to black women.

Shellae:

Sure, so I’m asking questions about not just individual behaviors, but also environments that shape our behavior. So for example, one of the questions on the survey is about how easy or how difficult it is in your neighborhood to find fresh fruits and vegetables. Um, because food scarcity is a concern for lots of people who live in different places. And maybe that’s not a big issue. From the data, it doesn’t seem like that’s a huge issue. For the women who completed the survey, the women who completed our survey, just to give you an idea of the social demographic, most of them are college educated or have a postgraduate degree. In terms of income, most the majority are at 75,000 or above. And so for them, apparently, it’s relatively easy to find fresh fruits and vegetables. Ironically, the thing that’s most difficult is finding affordable housing. And this is struck me as so interesting, because for women who are, you know, above the median income, and many of them who are at six figures and above, still are finding affordable housing difficult. And as we know, housing is a huge issue in terms of like, our stable housing is an issue in terms of everything from where we send our kids to school, to where those whole foods are located, or how we can access certain health resources. So a lot of my work has focused on where people are in those social and physical environments, because a lot of the communities that we live in a lot of the factors that are part of our communities, ultimately influence how we’re able to manage our health, you know, things from like healthcare professionals, do you have a healthcare professional in your neighborhood? So some of these things may seem to be? I don’t know, I’ve had the response that you’re asking a lot of information. But I think it matters in the big scheme, if we want to have a big picture of some of these challenges in terms of not just the concerns, but also what we can do to encourage beneficial health or have preventative health, like what are the things that are important fresh fruits and vegetables, access to green spaces and parks? And, you know, these are things that we find in higher income neighborhoods. So where are we living? And are those neighborhoods conducive to a healthy lifestyle? So I totally appreciate you asking all the questions, Michelle, because I found people call and leave messages on my, on my on my voicemail all the time, there was this woman from Alabama, and she wanted to talk to me about, you know, what this survey was all about. So, you know, I think this is a good opportunity for people to ask all the questions that they that they have because it really is. I think a personal A very personal piece of our lives that we’re being asked to share, especially when it’s for research purposes. But yeah, those are some of the questions that we have about prevention. I’m trying to think another question that might be relevant. Yeah, that’s probably the biggest one. We asked a lot about politics as well, and social type of social things that are happening, like you say, COVID-19, which we were experiencing during the time of the survey launch, but I definitely think it’s, it’s relevant.

Michele: 

I did it too. So I want to, let’s talk about COVID-19. Since you’re into with that, let’s pick up with that thing. We know New York is hit very hard, LA and the bay area as well. The numbers coming in from like Louisiana, and and we’re from South Carolina, where we have like 30% of our population 30% plus of our population being black. But yet 70% of the COVID-19 depths being twice as much percentage wise as the actual population. So I think it was what 32% of Louisiana’s population are African American, or identify as black, but 70% of the actual deaths from covid, 19 are black. When we look at that, and we think about healthcare disparities, what in your survey, are you looking to capture? So we know the income of the women that you bet the data you collect the merit? $75,000 or more? Are you asking questions about their early healthcare? Um, like, when you say, early adulthood? Are you looking at anything prior to that? Maybe? Did they have access to a doctor in their teens and preteens? You know, whether early birth control stuff like that, to get a understanding or better understanding of what their how their body formed, based on what they had available to them as children.

Shellae:

That’s a great point on No, we’re not asking about early leg put experiences. I mean, that would be a great question and sort of understand when people first started seeing like a gynecologist, for example, or going to the doctor. But um, we don’t ask about their experiences. Specifically, we do ask about what are some of the factors that influence your choice of a provider? So is it like cost of copay? Is it bedside manner? Is it distance? So though, what are the driving factors that lead you to stick with a certain provider? Is is one of the questions but in terms of, I mean, we haven’t yet aggregated the data by age, but that’s something that we aim to do, right? So anybody over the age of 18 can take the survey, any black woman. So what we’re hoping to do is stratify the entire sample, according to for example, 18, to 25 year olds, 25 to 35 year olds to sort of like segment the population by age to see if there any particular patterns that we can suss out that are different for younger women versus older women and vice versa.

Michele: 

Yes, I do like that part, too. Um, one last question before that I that I have that I thought of, and, and you brought this up as well, this mental health? And what are you looking for? What I found as a telogen X or I’m a Gen exercise one in the late 70s Dale to all Gen X’s What’s up, we were raised for this. We were raised to be in the house and eat peanut butter and jelly. We’ve been prepared for this and be latchkey kids a long time, right? Um, but what I’ve noticed about millennials is they will say I’m going to my therapists, and they have they’re proud about it. And how are we? What are you looking for and asking, and I’m at my mother’s house. That’s why you hear a landline ringing? What are you what are you looking for when it comes to mental health questions? I mean, what mental health questions are you asking within the survey?

Shellae:

That’s a good question. So we’re asking on just some general questions about life satisfaction. How people generally report like negative effect. It’s interesting that you mentioned generation because in a separate study, this is this is kind of the next Spansion of work that I’ve been involved in for quite some time. So for my doctoral work, I was involved in a smaller survey of college educated women who graduated from the University of Michigan and they came of age during. I mean, they’re now baby boomer. So they came of age, during a time when it was the civil rights movement. The women’s movement, you know, people were protesting the Vietnam War. So it, it really sparked my interest, and how, what moment in terms of generational moment can influence later life behaviors and, and attitudes. So of course, you know, people, it was normative, especially at a place like Michigan for people to be assume like a more activist identity, and what does that mean? And in real terms, and a lot of women self identified as as feminists, even though it was mixed, white and black sample. So one of the questions that I have on the survey is how do you identify and I think this generational question comes up again, because people will think about themselves, even though they identify as a black woman, they might think of themselves in different ways. And so there’s a list of identifiers, black woman, strong black woman, and etc, etc. And I think it’s interesting that a lot of black women have chosen the wrong black women identifier as how they describe themselves, which the literature tells us is characteristic, right? as black women, we think of ourselves as strong as mighty as you know, able to conquer a variety of different challenges. But that archetype can also be damaging for our health and our mental health, right? Because people think they can take it on, they can be mother, they can be daughter, they can be, you know, the one who made it, and their family. And oftentimes, it’s who takes care of that person, right. And so the strong black woman, stereotype is, is quite dangerous in some ways, because it can assume that you don’t need help, right? But you’re strong, and you’re impervious to challenges or, or needing time to just reflect. So this indirectly weaves into this conversation about mental health, and how do we think about ourselves. Because if we think of ourselves as strong and not needing help, then that could be a big barrier to even seeking out help, whether that’s informal just talking to someone or going to a professional and talking to someone. So I think it’s important, even though we don’t always even talk to our friends and family members, when we’re really at the brink, or we really need a break or we need help. There needs to be a recognition that it’s okay to need a break and maybe that break for you is not going to a therapist, maybe it’s just self care. But either way, I you know, this thread has been consistent just in terms of how we think of ourselves can also influence the type of behaviors that we choose to pursue.

Michele: 

Absolutely, if anybody’s connected with me, follow me on LinkedIn, I literally that LinkedIn on on Facebook, I literally had a post, Can y’all check on your strong friends, we are tired. I’ll just run the gauntlet for a few hours so we could sleep. And it was really to say we taught we get tired too and it’s some other stuff that came out from that but I’m getting text messages people wanting support. And it’s like I’m tired. So I woke up today about 130 because because I’m doing a lot to make sure all of you are supported. But at the same time we we have to take breaks like you said it’s a 10 hour or 12 hours of sleeping, that’s what I do. Um, so definitely, definitely check on your strong friends because they definitely need it as much as you do now they need it as well and just listen, I absolutely agree. Um, we are going to do two things right now. I’m going to wrap this up. If Do not leave. If you have questions about the survey that you do not want recorded, I will not record I’m going to stop in this recording and thereby Wait, we want you to record we got questions you got to get dr versus contact information so you can email her that her directly with your questions. So don’t don’t get scared about that. But for the people that are here live I want to give you the opportunity to ask so that you can have that banter you If you’re like Michelle, I do not want to ask this right now, can I message you, you can message me in the app directly to me. So where you see the in the chat, where you see in blue everyone, you want to scroll or type in my name, mich m i ch and I should be the only one that comes up. And you can message me directly and I will ask your question for you. And that’s the same thing for anybody who’s watching the replay. If you’re like, I do not want to ask this question directly to her. Can I send it to you? Yes. And I will keep it private. But I would prefer you sent it to her if you’re watching the replay. So so that you can have that banter and that clarification back and forth that and you don’t really want me in the middle of Okay, so everybody thank you for joining. Be sure to go to our voices is that I get this right hours, hours. Go ahead, our story. I’m singular and then our voices

Shellae:

plural.com so our story our voices calm. I just can’t read the night because I got the link right.

Michele:

So thank you so much for for joining us and sharing what you’re working on everybody. Check out the replay reach out to the professor so she can help us help each other and help the other generations of women before us. And after us who are black women looking for mental health who need help with mental health and understanding options, finding us the best path here as black women when it comes to our physical health as well, everybody we will be back on April 21 with the session called from industrial engineer to software developer and we have a sister South Side of Chicago been coding since she was eight years old, found out about engineering her first week in college changed her major became an industrial engineer and now works in tech with software. So I want you to come join us and meet Danielle Poehler. Alright everybody, have a great night and I’ll talk to you later.